+-

Author Topic: New Minstrel Class/Order/Skills Write-Up (Finally)  (Read 156 times)

0 Members and 4 Guests are viewing this topic.

  • Head Plot
  • *****
  • Posts: 26
  • Nobility Rank: +3/-0
    • View Profile
New Minstrel Class/Order/Skills Write-Up (Finally)
« on: July 08, 2015, 07:13:44 pm »
Sorry we weren't able to get this posted sooner, but attached is the new bard-style class Aaron and I have been working on. We've made it so that it could be used as a full blown class, a separate set of skills, or in combination with an order for theurges and rouges. Please read the document all the way through before commenting.
Ilyingrad Character
Kyría

Tarox Characters
Maite the Paladin, aka "Mighty Mouse"
Somaran Noblewoman
Member of the Order of Alcantara

Kadence the Minstrel
Gatrosan Yeowoman

Share on Bluesky Share on Facebook


  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 189
  • Nobility Rank: +6/-0
  • Official Voice Actor for Yoh Kureiji
  • Location: Farmington, AR
    • View Profile
I'm sorry to say it like this but the system as you've written it doesn't appeal to me.  I think its too complicated and too difficult to implement into a LARP setting.  I'm also not sure about music having magical/almost magical properties (this coming from someone that considers themselves a bit of a musician).  At this point we definitely don't need to add another class (we'd have to figure out the math to balance out every other skill in the game for minstrel, too).  I do like the idea of a Minstrel/Bard College that gives path of sound to spellcasters and natural sound effects to non-spellcasters.  I think they should be allowed to wield weapons, though, and the college shouldn't be limited to just rogues and theurges (Maybe make a Minstrel college for Mage, Paladin, and Theurge that gets Path of Sound and another path, then the Bard College for Warriors, Rogues, Rangers, and Monks that gets natural Sound).

In short, though, I think that Minstrel/Bard would probably work better as a trade skill since it is a job that most anybody can do if they put in the time and effort.  I think it would probably be more appealing that way, too.
Former Head Plot

KAWWWW!!!

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 88
  • Nobility Rank: +3/-1
    • View Profile
I agree on the complex part, you've got multiple skills that are only there for the purpose of affecting another skill. Also stuff like aura health reduction and stamina changes are really difficult to mete out in a fight, especially since people already need to know all of their stamina modifiers. In addition to that, anything that causes extra holds is best steered away from and having to call a hold, pull out your sheet to see all of the modifiers for your skill, and even use a tape to measure out your distance would be a huge pain, not just for the minstrel, but everyone involved.

Just as a personal thing, I also don't like the idea of a class being shoehorned into only one thing. If you want a support/buffing class; great, but I don't like the idea of a class who's just one thing "Music"
Stephen Parker
Stick the Goblin
Sir Hageshi Tetsuyo of the Order of the Golden Fleece

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 36
  • Nobility Rank: +2/-1
    • View Profile
As for almost magical properties this is a fantasy game with magic for one, for two it can be used as it states in the page to inspire or create dread into your enemies, so that could just be a mechanic for what acts like magic but is closer to filling someone with emotion so their adrenaline kicks in or puts fear into the enemies because of this loud sound making it seem like there is more power on your side of the field. For historical references true bards did not have weapons because they believed that their music would keep people joyful and/or keep unwanted people from harming them, because they are a person with no weapons and are harmless. As for the complexity of it, it is only as complex as you make it out to be, for people who play rogues with multiple things like training to be an assassin, alchemist, or an escapist there is just as much complex stuff in that as there is in Minstrel, or theuges for they can pull off magic along with that. There was mention of keep track of distance of the radius, what do we do with wall spells? Most of the time the players are able to keep up with the bounders of walls and even if it is marked people still run into it occasionally. As for the stamina/mana effect people do that all the time with the stamina chart, not only that but there are some spells that also have an X mana application to them. Being that it is only music does not make it a poor class, there is also the other other charts (it will mostly relate best with the rogue skills) that can give it some more flavor if you so choose to do so. Balancing the math on all the other skills in the game just takes time, and if your willing to put in the time then there is no problem. Please keep commenting so we can get a good dicussion out of this.
Just your local farmer

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 88
  • Nobility Rank: +3/-1
    • View Profile
I'm just not a fan of having all of the separate skills, needing one for the distance, one for the potency, etc.
Also I just feel that the "music" theme is too limiting. A rogue has the theme of "Tricky", but that can be anything from alchemy, traps, stabby types, ranged, etc. With the Minstrel, they'd all be taking basically the same skills and getting the same benefits with no real variation. Even monks have variety in the form of their magical paths and who they worship
Stephen Parker
Stick the Goblin
Sir Hageshi Tetsuyo of the Order of the Golden Fleece

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 36
  • Nobility Rank: +2/-1
    • View Profile
Considering that Music is mostly what they are about, not to mention that their variations have different effects that can add plus body, temp damage, and allowing healing effects to be more efficient. They have what a Minstrel should be able to do, play music, support players, they can still fight with their instrument for damage if they want, and if this isn't your cup of tea then don't play it. As for the mechanics, this allows for the player to choose if they want to have a stronger effect, or more effects at the start, and unlike any other class this one actually applies a constant effect as they play along with an area to empower players or harm opponents. Mage spells are 95% of the time ONE target, and have to keep spending the mana for more people. Warriors skills are 90% of the time ONE target. Minstrels are the only characters with the efficiency to have this unique effect while beating someone with an instrument at the same time. Please add discussion to this topic as Errata is upon us.
Just your local farmer

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 189
  • Nobility Rank: +6/-0
  • Official Voice Actor for Yoh Kureiji
  • Location: Farmington, AR
    • View Profile
Here's why the radius effects don't work.  Mages only use them for Wall Spells, Blood Gloat, Glyphs, and Rift (there may be another 1 or 2).  Walls are generally laid out before a scene or in an enclosed space where you don't need a marker.  You generally don't get more than one in an encounter and they're all the same size.

With the crescendo skill that is proposed the radius varies.  It could be a 1 foot (I presume; the document actually lists everything in inches) to 50 feet radius, meaning up to a 100 ft diameter.  That is ridiculous.  Either the area effects need to be taken out all together or maxed at a 10 - 20 ft diameter.  Also, how do you currently call the effect of "Plus Damage Level 6 20 ft radius 10 minute duration"?

Echo also needlessly complicates the skill, too.  I'd suggest giving each skill a set duration and leaving it that way.

To the point about minstrels and bards historically not fighting: it isn't that they didn't fight.  They were just high society poets.  I'd be surprised if none of them dueled occasionally at the least.  I'm also not keen on people using a boffer instrument to hit people.  I can appreciate the silliness but I don't want that as part of this game (yes, I know I use a fish as a weapon occasionally but there's even story behind that).  If I hit someone with a guitar in real life it would stagger them and shatter.  Then I'd be a musician without an instrument.  Also, making a boffer instrument that doesn't look like crap would be difficult.
Former Head Plot

KAWWWW!!!

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 36
  • Nobility Rank: +2/-1
    • View Profile
You say that radius doesn't work but there hasn't been this style of system played yet. If you say it can't work then your not willing to try it is what it seems like you are saying. As for the Radius, players are intelligent enough to know about where 10 feet is, and can fight accordingly to those mechanics. Call will probably be "5 feet radius Healing x2" and after the player stops playing "effect lasts 30 minutes". Echo gives the players affected by the effect buff for a time, instead of it being instant. The intsrument should NOT need to be flawless as long as it looks like it and still meets the requirements as a boffa should, also again with the breaking of a real world instrument this is a game, try to not associate every detail with real life circumstance. Also instead of making a statement "this needlessly complicates" please actually gives a reason why it does. And if you suggest a change give a mechanic so it can be decided on. Please keep responding to the post to make more dicussion on the topic.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2015, 11:39:21 pm by aaronsfrench »
Just your local farmer

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 68
  • Nobility Rank: +3/-1
    • View Profile
My opinion is that the system is a little too complicated. If it were condensed to one skill that was being bought, similar to faith effects I would be okay with it. Essentially you buy the bard skill and get 5 points to spend on effects each time you buy the skill. The radius is a set 10' and the time that the effect lasts depends on the level of the effect. Like with faith you learn X amount of effects at start of game and can learn the rest through instruction.

This will also lower the total character point expenditure on the skill. As it is if you wanted to play it you would have to sink all of your points into the various skills if you want to be a half decent bard.
Character: Pluto Pallas Master Tattooist
Player: Jonathon Owens

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 88
  • Nobility Rank: +3/-1
    • View Profile
I agree with the one skill akin to monks idea. You could even have different schools to learn skills from for further differentiation of characters. I don't like having to buy different skills for range, effect, duration, etc. It reduces character variety because they have to spend all their points on the same skills and have few to none left over.
As for people being intelligent enough to know 10 feet, in a fight some of our players have trouble remembering their own effects and abilities, let alone those of another character.
Stephen Parker
Stick the Goblin
Sir Hageshi Tetsuyo of the Order of the Golden Fleece

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 36
  • Nobility Rank: +2/-1
    • View Profile
There can be the option of trying to form it into another class (say theurge/rogue), but to have it just be in the same fashion as monks, as for the way you gain skills, makes almost a copy of something thats already there. Monks are the only class to have one skill that gets you what you need to do your effects, but no other class does this. If you want to have a class that is a copy of Monk, play Monk. The option of radius could be a straight character point value like spend 8 cp to have radius 10', otherwise you would only have one target.  Also people are not dumb, you have fun as you character, but you need to remember your sheet because plot isn't going to do it for you.
Just your local farmer

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 88
  • Nobility Rank: +3/-1
    • View Profile
Yes, you do need to remember your character. It is not however your job to remember some other characters AOE aura that does thing that are not done by any other effect as seen thus far in the game.
Stephen Parker
Stick the Goblin
Sir Hageshi Tetsuyo of the Order of the Golden Fleece

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 36
  • Nobility Rank: +2/-1
    • View Profile
As a thought when a Minstrel starts playing you would be best to stay a fair distance from them. Like a mage, if you stay out of their packet range they can't hit you. Also like mages the effect is announce at the start of him playing, so like when a mage announces a spell then casts it on you it is the same idea.
Just your local farmer

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 68
  • Nobility Rank: +3/-1
    • View Profile
Unlike a mage though there isn't a representation of for where the effect is happening. A mage has a packet, the bard may have world effect or a 1' diameter. I would say that's a little harder to judge.
Character: Pluto Pallas Master Tattooist
Player: Jonathon Owens

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 60
  • Nobility Rank: +0/-6
    • View Profile
My problem with this is that the skills are minstrel only if i understand. Skills are supposed to be avalible to any class. Period

  • Head Plot
  • *****
  • Posts: 124
  • Nobility Rank: +16/-0
    • View Profile
Jon, if you read the write-up you will see that every class has a listed character point cost for the skills and there is absolutely no mention of it being restricted to a particular class.  Also, the other vote we had on this besides attempting to beta test the idea was that we did not want to introduce another class to the game so there will be no minstrel class and the cost chart will be as presented at the end of the document.
Heath Robinson: Autolycus, monk of Lu-Modae

 

+-Recent Posts ezBlock

IMPORTANT, PLEASE READ! by JessicaE
October 04, 2018, 06:22:00 pm

January 2018 Game History by iikepie13
March 21, 2018, 04:11:47 am

December 2017 Game History by iikepie13
March 21, 2018, 04:08:38 am

November 2017 Game History by iikepie13
March 21, 2018, 03:54:52 am

October 2017 Game History by iikepie13
March 21, 2018, 03:49:35 am

Re: Crafting Skills by iikepie13
February 06, 2018, 02:29:49 am